September 29-30th Germany Kill 30,000 Jews at Babi Yar - History

September 29-30th Germany Kill 30,000 Jews at Babi Yar - History


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Babi Yar a few days after the big massacres

The Germans killed over 30,000 Jews in Kiev in two days at a ravine outslde the city called Babi Yar. The German moved the Jews and then shot 100 hundred at a time with machine guns. Many Jews were buried alive.


Before the war, Kiev was the home to 160,000 Jews. As the German forces neared Kiev over 100,000 Jews fled eastward. Most of the remaining Jews were old or young not able to escape. The Germans entered the city on September 19, 1941. A few days after their arrival the army headquarters and other buildings blew up, hundreds of Germany soldiers and officers were killed. NKVD agents had placed the bombs. The Germans used the bombing as an excuse to liquidate the cities Jewish population.

On September 27th and 28th posters were put up throughout the city ordering the Jews to assemble to be resettled the next day. The Jews believed that they were indeed be resettled. Instead, the Einsatzkommando moved the Jews of Babi Yar to a ravine just outside the city call Babi War. Once there they were undressed and shot, with their bodies falling into the ravine.

Ukrainian policemen participated the slaughter, this is what one policeman recalled: “ The Germans formed a corridor and drove the panic-stricken people towards the huge glade, where sticks, swearing, and doges, who were tearing the people’s bodies, forced the people to undress, to form columns in hundreds, and then to go in the columns in twos towards the mouth of the ravine. Then they found themselves on the narrow ground above the price, twenty to twenty-five meters in height, and on the opposite side, there were the Germans’ machine guns. The killed wounded and half-alive people fell down and were smashed there. Then the next hundred were brought, and everything repeated again. The policemen took the children by the legs and threw them alive down in the Car.”

Thousands were buried alive a few managed to escape. In two days 33,771 Jews were at Babi War in those two days. Kiev and Babi Yar were just one of the many places that the Jews were killed by the tens of thousands.


1941: Nazis Massacre Jews at Babi Yar

September 30, 1941, was the second and final day of the mass killing of 33,771 Jews that took place in a Kiev ravine.

A Jewish choir performs at the monument at the Babi Yar, scene of Nazi massacres. Many Ukrainians wish that more Jews had been sent there. AP

September 30, 1941, was the second and final day of the notorious Babi Yar massacre of Jews, one of a series of mass killings undertaken by the Germans in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev during World War II. Babi Yar is the name of a ravine in the northern part of the city.


Babi Yar: Critical Questions and Comments

In this case no one ever took the trouble of confirming the various allegations and witness statements by means of detailed forensic investigations.

The subject of ‘Babi Yar’ is confusing in many respects. For a general overview, this brief summary shall therefore identify the major problem areas:

  1. The mass murder at Babi Yar took place almost four months prior to the Wannsee Conference, where the killing was allegedly first planned.
  2. Widely divergent dates are given for the murder.
  3. Depending on the source, the number of victims varies by as much as two orders of magnitude. 4. Widely different methods and weapons are alleged for the murders.
  4. There is also no consensus on where the killings took place.
  5. The witnesses, or reports respectively, make highly contradictory claims in other respects as well.
  6. The number of alleged victims by far exceeds the number of jews remaining in Kyiv after the Soviet evacuation.
  7. To date there has been no forensic investigation of the murder site and weapons. No attempts were ever made to ascertain and secure any evidence.
  8. It is also odd that the Soviets would use a site as a location for a garbage dump and incineration area where countless victims were allegedly murdered by the archenemy during the ‘Great Patriotic War’.
  9. And finally, the allegations are disproved by wartime air photos.

We shall employ standard scientific methodology to examine the issues briefly touched on above. Following some introductory information for a better general understanding of the topic, individual sections will present the first reports, eyewitness accounts, and other sources, and will discuss specific questions that arise in context. A separate section is devoted to general questions.

The taking of Kyiv by the Germans on September 19, 1941, by no means heralded the end of unrest for this city. Kyiv had hardly been occupied when “ tremendous explosions occurred one after another .” On September 24, the Hotel Continental was blown up, along with the Headquarters of the rear area of the 6th Army. On September 25 a conflagration of the downtown area of Kyiv, Khreshchatyk, continued to spread. Mines had destroyed almost all public buildings – after the German troops had moved in, and many died.

By the end of September a Soviet map for setting of delayed action mines had been found which showed about 50 objects readied for radio detonation. In addition, an enormous quantity of mines, explosives and ‘Molotov Cocktails’ had also been discovered. Most of the city center had burned down and some 50,000 persons were homeless. Hundreds of German soldiers had been killed fighting the fires. Many organized saboteurs and partisans were left behind in the city abandoned by the Soviets Kyiv was still a battlefield.

According to a document of a rather suspicious origin presented at the International Military Tribunal (IMT), all jews were allegedly arrested and 33,771 of them were executed on September 29 and 30 in retaliation for the ‘arson’.

Prior to the evacuation, about 175,000 but possibly as few as 160,000 jews lived in Kyiv.

The jews were allegedly instructed, by means of a poster, to bring their possessions and gather at a street corner on September 29, 1941. From there, it is said, they would be marched to Babi Yar at the northwestern outskirts of Kyiv.

‘Babi Yar’ translates roughly as ‘Ravine of Old Women’. It is not, however, a ravine, but rather a branching system of erosion channels, from 30 ft. to about 3,000 ft. across and from zero to about 150 ft. depths at the wider sections of the larger western gorges.

The eastern part of this erosion feature was about 1,300 ft. in length and a maximum of 30 ft. in width and extended from the north approaching the jewish Cemetery lying on it’s eastern side to about 200 ft. This Cemetery measured roughly 1,300 ft. × 1,000 ft. The broader branch of this erosion feature is located about ¼ mile farther to the west. To the south of the jewish Cemetery is Melnikowa Street, and to the southeast there is a large military camp that already shows up on air photos dating from May 17, 1939. Not the erosion gully next to the jewish Cemetery, but the entire extensively fissured area was called Babi Yar. On September 29 and 30, 1941, it is said, countless victims – most of them jews – were murdered there. But also in this case, no one ever took the trouble of confirming the various allegations and witness statements by means of detailed forensic investigations. An objective analysis is thus required.

On October 21, 1941, the London office of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA) reported that the pro-NS Ukrainian newspaper Krakiwski Wisti, published in Krakow, had written

[…] that soon after the occupation of the city [Kyiv], all jews, including men, women and children of all ages, were taken from their homes and driven into barbed-wire enclosures located at the outskirts of Kyiv. From there they were driven by foot to an undisclosed destination.

On January 6, 1942, Vyacheslav Molotov, the Soviet People’s Commissar for Foreign Affairs, announced to the governments allied with the Soviet Union:

A large number of jews, including women and children of all ages, was gathered in the jewish Cemetery of Kyiv. Before they were shot, all were stripped naked and beaten. The first persons selected for shooting were forced to lie face down at the bottom of a ditch and were shot with automatic rifles. Then the Germans threw a little earth on them. The next group of people selected was forced to lie on top of them, and shot, and so on.

  • It takes many workers and a great deal of time to strip and beat up tens of thousands of people. And how long would it take to force as many people as constitute the entire population of a medium-sized city, to lie down in groups at the bottom of a ditch? How many people would it take to shovel a layer of earth over each layer of bodies?
  • To shoot people with automatic rifles, one needs at least twice as many bullets as there are people to be shot. 100,000 rifle bullets weigh about 2,820 pounds. Since especially their lead core survives for practically forever, finding them ought to be an easy matter. Why have no investigations ever been conducted? Why do none of Kyiv’s inhabitants mention the noise of firing?
  • Automatic rifles?
  • About 1,060,000 cu.ft. of soil must be excavated to accommodate 50,000 bodies. When was this excavation done, and by whom? Even given a mass grave depth of about 16 ft., the graves would have taken up more than 64,500 sq.ft. of space. Excavation problems, and the resultant time required?
  • Why do the needle-sharp air photos show not even the slightest trace of any disturbances of the ground?
  • Molotov’s alleged location contradicts other testimony.

The JTA report of March 15, 1942:

240,000 Jews executed by Gestapo in Ukraine

burying jewish victims at one great tract of land, near Kyiv, by Germans even before life left them […] ground moving in waves.

In November 1943, one “ Aloshin ” told W. H. Lawrence, reporter for the New York Times:

[…] German troops […] ordered them into the ravine, where they were directed to give up their valuables. Part of their clothing also was removed. Then […] they were placed on a platform, machine-gunned and thrown into the ravine.

  • So now it was the Wehrmacht who were the killers. Does this fit in with the other reports, for example the ‘Event Reports’?
  • How were the clothing and the valuables removed from the ravine?
  • Mass murder on a platform? Why? And if so, then it would be possible for groups at most, not all at once. When was the platform built, and by whom?
  • In a narrow, winding ravine, the line-ups of people to be executed cannot be very long. One cannot simply swing the machine gun/s in any large angle one might wish to, without endangering one’s own people, without losing accuracy and penetration at oblique angles, and without facilitating the escape of some of the victims.
  • The bodies must be removed as the groups are executed, otherwise they would result in an enormous pile. If one allows ten minutes for the undressing, shooting and removal of the bodies from each group of at most 100 people, then the murder would have taken at least 83 hours.
  • How is it possible to lead the victims into the ravine and then throw them into that same ravine after shooting them?
  • In late September dusk comes relatively early in Kyiv. On September 29 it rained heavily, all the roads were soggy, on the 30th it rained and snowed and road conditions grew even worse. Since it is impossible to execute groups of any appreciable size in the dark, the murder could have been carried out only during the daylight hours, i.e., it would have taken more than a week. Bright floodlights are not an option in wartime, especially near the front – and with partisans in the vicinity. And Wiehn raves about beautiful September days!

The jewess Nesya Elgort tells us:

With her little son [she] miraculously escaped […] untouched by the bullets […] [from] under a heap of warm bloody bodies […] hundreds and thousands of bodies piled on top of each other. […]

It is now difficult for me to understand how I got out of that ravine of death, but I crawled out, driven by an instinct for self-preservation.

  • Neither Nesya Elgort nor her little son was hit by a bullet! How did she manage to crawl out – with her child! – from beneath an enormous pile of bodies? Even with optimum positioning – which is more than unlikely, given the circumstances – the bodies would ultimately have weighted down the thoraces of mother and son to the point where breathing became impossible. One must also ask whether she or the child would not have been harmed by the impact of a body falling down on them, even from as little as 6 to 10 ft. above?
  • She escaped unnoticed from the ravine. Were there no guards?
  • Why were only women able to escape, but not a single one of the men, who in this case would have been physically better qualified?

A physician named Dr. Gustav Wilhelm Schübbe allegedly killed 21,000 persons single-handedly, with morphine injections. 110,000 to 140,000 victims were allegedly killed in this way at the “German Annihilation Institute” in Kyiv.

  • Injections of morphine, which was in very short supply and badly needed for wounded soldiers? And how long would it take one physician to give 21,000 injections?
  • According to the files of the US Document Center in Berlin, which holds more than one million records pertaining to members of the NSDAP (‘Nazi’ Party), Dr. Gustav Wilhelm Schübbe was never stationed in Kyiv.
  • Why did neither the USSR nor the jews ever search for the location of this “Annihilation Institute”?

About two weeks after the recapture of Kyiv in late 1943, the western journalists who had been invited and were told that six weeks earlier the Germans had finished the blasting, exhumation and open-air incineration of 70,000 bodies, the crushing of the unburned bones and the bulldozing of the material into the ravine.

  • What happened to the difference of 30,000 bodies, and where are all the witnesses for these blazing fires, for the clouds of smoke and the infernal stench? It ought to have been an easy matter for the Soviets to procure evidence and witnesses to prove all these claims to the journalists – or perhaps not? Why did the physical evidence fail to impress the journalists?

As noted in sections 4 and 6, the jews of Kyiv and its environs were informed via placards that they had to assemble with all their belongings at a specific place. This placard was not ready until the day before.

This organizational point is of utmost importance and should be examined a little more closely, for the relevant considerations apply mutatis mutandis for all the various versions of the massacre.

The placard was printed in Russian, Ukrainian and German and allegedly read [translation of German text]:

All the jews of Kyiv are to gather until 8 o’clock on Monday, September 29, 1941, at the corner of Melnik and Dokteriwski Streets (at the cemeteries). Bring your papers, money and valuables, also warm clothing etc…

Anyone failing to comply with this order, and found elsewhere, will be shot.

Anyone breaking into vacant jewish homes or appropriating items from the same will be shot.

  • Why is no issuing authority given?
  • Name and rank of the issuing commander?
  • Date of issue? Regarding the German text:
  • 8 o’clock in the morning or 8 o’clock in the evening? “Until” 8 o’clock?
  • The original German text was printed using ‘oe’, ‘ae’ and ‘ss’ instead of ‘ö’, ‘ä’ and ‘ß’. Did the printer for the 6th Army not have any umlauts in his fonts?
  • “Dokteriwski Street” is incorrect. The street was called ‘Djegtjariwskoi’, i.e., Tarburner Street.
  • “Melnik Street” is incorrect. It is correctly called ‘Melnikowa Street’. It is named for a Mr. Melnikow.
  • “An den Friedhöfen” (the original German wording for “at the cemeteries”) is incorrect German. It should read ‘Bei den Friedhöfen’. Aside from that, the Russian text has only one cemetery.
  • The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust5 claims that the purpose of the order was ‘resettlement’. What is the source of this insight? The placard makes no mention of this.
  • What is meant by “found elsewhere”? When people converge on a location from everywhere else, everywhere is “elsewhere”.
  • How likely is it that a military propaganda division and an army printer would do such sloppy work?

Regarding the Russian text:

  • The term used for jews (“schidy”) is contemptuous Russian gutter jargon. What sort of results can one expect when even the order to assemble bodes ill? Did the Germans actually want to run the risk of having a large part of the jews not show up at all, and go into hiding? Perhaps they even intended that in such a case they would put all armed conflict on hold, and employ their forces in locating the jews instead…?
  • Here, too, the street names are incorrect. Moreover, the declension of street and that of cemetery are both wrong.
  • The Russian text specifies 8:00 a.m. No mention is made of resettlement!
  • In the list of things to bring, what does “etc.” mean? Did that not risk having the great jewish population come to the gathering place loaded down with masses of baggage and horses and wagons, hand carts and baby buggies crammed full of belongings, blocking all the streets of Kyiv in the process?

Regarding the Ukrainian text:

  • Again, incorrect street names, and no hint as to the purpose of the assembly. Whoever may have been responsible for this ‘order’ – what were they thinking of:
  • after the occupation of Kyiv, and with an anonymous placard, with name-calling and threats of execution, to order perhaps 100,000 or even more jews to assemble literally over night and with potentially all their belongings, at a single street corner at 8 o’clock the next morning?
  • How was this ‘message’ supposed to reach the jews in Kyiv and its environs, shortly after the extremely destructive armed conflict?
  • How did they intend to handle this enormous and unorganized crowd (no staggered times for the summoned, in alphabetical order, for example)? Did they deliberately risk chaos in the streets – something which the occupiers of a large, partisan-riddled city precisely did not need?
  • How are these great masses of people and goods to fit at one street corner? • How does one print approximately 2,000 placards in a city with no electrical power?
  • Where and how does one post the placards, while potentially risking one’s life to snipers?
  • Why did none of the many German Army privates notice the huge crowds, the miles-long exodus, or the placards (which, after all, they could read!) and mention all of this at an appropriate time, if only to their families?
  • Why did none of the foreign correspondents, whom the ‘German gangs of killers’ allowed to view the captured and burning city of Kyiv, see or at least hear about even a single one of the alleged 2,000 placards?
  • In a just recently captured and still very dangerous city, is there nothing more pressing for the occupiers to do than to create additional problems on an enormous scale, especially in contexts which, after all, were not terribly urgent?

According to the Brockhaus Enzyklopädie the “order for the final solution of the jewish question” was issued on July 31, 1941 (Nuremberg Trial Document NG 2586e), and was announced on the occasion of the ‘Wannsee Conference’ (January 20, 1942). Quite aside from the fact that historians and other interested persons are still searching in vain for this order for mass extermination, it is more than odd that many tens of thousands would have been slaughtered in Babi Yar before the order was even made known. Therefore, let us take a closer look at the relevant documentation.

How likely are mass murders months before the prior approval of the victims’ evacuation? Part of the purpose of the evacuation was also to gain experience “relating to the coming final solution of the jewish question.” So, there was not even an overall concept at that time.

To deal with the final solution (which the document shows to be, at this point, evacuation and the use of jews as labor force), consultations between experts from the Foreign Office, the Security Police and the Security Service are suggested. Again there is nothing definite.

This gives rise to a pressing question: On whose orders were the “33,771 murders” committed on September 29 and 30, 1941, four months before the Wannsee Conference was convened and easily five months before the disputed Wannsee Conference Protocol copies finally reached the participants? Surely mass murder without backing from higher-up is anything but likely. All the more so, considering that even later on, i.e., after the Wannsee Conference, a good number of concentration camp commandants were convicted by Hitler’s justice system, some of them even executed, for cruelty and other irregularities.

So when did the murders really take place?

Where was the crime committed?

  • In the cemetery, beside the cemetery, in a forest and if so, in which one?
  • At the edge of the ravine, in the ravine, and in which ravine anyhow?
  • In a brickworks, in Kyiv, in gas vans, or perhaps even in the Dnjepr River?

What do the sources discussed allege the murder weapons to have been?

  • machine guns
  • submachine guns
  • automatic rifles
  • rifle butts
  • clubs
  • rocks
  • tanks
  • mines
  • hand grenades
  • gas vans
  • bayonets and knives
  • burial alive
  • drowning
  • injections
  • electric shock
  • Did the Germans avail themselves of the Soviet method of shooting victims in the neck? What would an unbiased court do if it had to pass judgment on an alleged mass murderer, if the witnesses were in such thorough disagreement?

Shooting 33,771 or even far more people within two days and then removing all traces of the deed (which is impossible anyhow, with the investigative means available today!) would require superb organization and logistics. Some aspects thereof were discussed in the context of specific issues, and for reasons of space constraints we shall have to leave it at that.

We would stress, however, that these problems would have been unmanageable under extreme conditions such as prevailed right after the taking of Kyiv, with fires, blasting and partisan activity on the one hand and the continuing battles at the front, with their concomitant demand for human and material resources, and in autumn of 1943 in the face of the advancing deadly front of the Soviet army.

Why did no one ever try to secure any evidence in order to prove the murders? In the case of Babi Yar, witnesses and allegations (and from Stalin’s glorious days, no less!) are blindly given full credence even though they contradict each other and claim the silliest impossibilities.

Why does no one bother to lift a finger in this instance, to secure bodies and remains, residue, murder weapons etc., even though countless victims are at issue? Is such conduct by the authorities responsible in keeping with the binding international legal guidelines?

It is clearly not necessary to specify which questions a high-ranking, disinterested, international and incorruptible committee of experts would have to examine in order to arrive at a relevant forensic assessment!

But the incriminating documents must also be examined very critically, not least of all because they too are rendered questionable by the evidence contained in the air photos. The so-called Gerstein Report, and the Jerusalem Trial of John Demjanjuk no less, show that the champions of one particular school of thought do not hesitate to commit grotesque falsifications even many decades after the end of the war. Some few examples:

Despite a clear and unequivocal international report issued after the discovery of the mass graves of Katyn, the atrocity propaganda churned out by Ilya Ehrenburg and Wassily Grossmann continued – not only throughout the Nuremberg Trials, but right up until a few years ago – to impute the Stalinist mass murders to the Germans. In this vein, Katyn and Babi Yar are not the only examples that come to mind there are also the massacres of Lvov, Char’kov, Bykivnia, Bielhorodka, Darnitza and Vinnica. They represent many hundreds of thousands of victims, including some from the liquidation era of Lazar Moisejevich Kaganovich. Katyn is the only case so far where the Soviets have admitted as late as 1991 that they were the perpetrators!

After the end of the war the Soviets turned the ravine of Babi Yar into a municipal garbage dump, and later into a garbage incineration site. That the Soviets intended to build a sports facility over the site of “indescribable crimes” is no less incomprehensible…


The massacre

Later, one of the soldiers in charge of the massacre would say: Α]

Template-specific style sheet:

On September 29 and 30, special units of the SS called Einsatzgruppen, and some local Ukrainians who supported the Nazis, took these people to the ravine at Babi Yar. They made them put all of their things in piles. They made them strip naked. The area was so crowded that by the time people heard gunshots, there was no way to escape. The Nazis took people ten at a time into the ravine, made them lay down, and shot them with machine guns. Γ]

Between September 29 and 30, the Nazis killed 33,771 Jewish people at Babi Yar. Δ] Ε] Ζ] Η]

The Nazis buried these people in a mass grave. People who had survived being shot were buried alive, along with the dead. Only 29 people survived and were able to escape. ⎖]

The murdered Jews' property was given to Nazi leaders in Kiev. ⎗]


September 29-30th Germany Kill 30,000 Jews at Babi Yar - History

(Please, observe the credits at the bottom or in the page of credits)

On 19/20 September 1941 Kyiv (Kiew) was occupied by the XXIXth German Army Corps and the 6th Army. 875,000 people lived in the city, of whom 20% were Jews (175,000). Some factories important for military purposes and their workers, among them approximately 20,000-30,000 Jews were evacuated by the Soviets. The exact number of evacuated Jews is unknown since no count was taken at that time. Perhaps 130,000 Jews fell into Nazi hands. Any ordinary citizen had great difficulty in leaving the city because of transportation restrictions.
The population remembered the last German occupation in 1918 and were convinced that the occupiers would act as expected: in a civilized manner. It was anticipated that the Germans would restore the rights and property of the populace abolished by the Soviets. The citizens of Kiev were not aware of the risks involved in falling into German hands, and could not imagine their ultimate fate.

Jews had already been persecuted and killed during the first days of the occupation. However, for reasons still unknown, a ghetto was not established in Kyiv.
On 24 September 1941, and in the following days, several bombs were detonated in Kyiv (Kreshchatik and Prorizna Streets), and destroyed some occupied buildings in the centre of the town, including the army headquarters and the Hotel Continental, where German officers resided. Hundreds of German soldiers and officers were killed. The resulting fire also destroyed some further buildings. These bombs had been placed by a special command of NKVD agents who intentionally remained in Kyiv for this purpose.

Wehrmachtsgeneral Alfred Jodl testified at his trial in Nürnberg:
". hardly had we occupied the city when one tremendous explosion after another occurred. The major part of the inner city burned down, 50,000 people were made homeless. German soldiers were used to fight the flames, and suffered considerable losses, because further large amounts of explosives detonated during the fire.
At first, the local commander in Kyiv thought that it was sabotage on the part of the population, but then we found a demolition chart, which had already been prepared a long time ago, listing 50 or 60 objectives in Kyiv for destruction. This chart was, in fact, correct, as investigation by engineers at once proved. At least 40 more objectives were ready to be blown up for the most part, remote control was to set off the explosion by means of radio waves. I myself had the original of this demolition chart in my hands."

German troops caught and executed a Jew on Kreshchatik Street, when he cut a water hose that was being used for fighting the fire. That may have been the excuse the Germans needed to accuse the Kyiv Jews of being responsible for the explosions. The German military commander of Kyiv, Generalmajor Eberhardt, attended a meeting with the Höherer SS- und Polizeiführer SS-Obergruppenführer Friedrich Jeckeln, the commanding officer of Einsatzgruppe C, SS-Brigadeführer Dr Otto Rasch, and the commanding officer of Sonderkommando 4a, SS-Standartenführer Paul Blobel. They decided that the appropriate response to this sabotage should be the elimination of all Kyiv Jews, carried out by Sonderkommando 4a, consisting of SD and Sipo members, the 3rd company of the Waffen-SS Batallion zur besonderen Verfügung, and a platoon of the 9. Polizeibatallion. In addition Police Battalions 45 and 305 of the Polizeiregiment Süd and some Ukrainian auxiliary police troops would reinforce this murder squad.

A large ravine, called Babi Yar (Babi Jar / Ukr.: Babyn Jar), was chosen as the killing site. This ravine was located at the edge of Kyiv, around 10 km northwest of the centre of the city. Today it lies within the city precincts.
On 28 September 1941 the German 637th propaganda company issued an announcement throughout Kyiv, published by the printing office of the 6th Army, ordering the Jews to assemble the next day (Monday, the 29th / Yom Kippur, at 8 a.m.) at Lukianovska, Degtiarska, Lagerna, and Melnikova Streets:

"All Jews living in the city of Kiew and its vicinity must come to the corner of Melnikova and Dokhturova Streets (near the cemeteries) by 8 o'clock on the morning of Monday, September 29th 1941.
They are to bring with them documents, money, valuables, as well as warm clothes, underwear etc. Any Jews not carrying out this instruction and who are found elsewhere will be shot. Any civilian entering apartments left by the Jews and stealing property will be shot."

Thousands of Jews followed this order. In addition, to reinforce the propaganda, the Germans spread rumours that the Jews would be resettled to labour camps. Since the assembling point was situated near the goods station Lukianivka, most Jews believed the rumours.
Guarded by SS, SD and Ukrainian auxiliaries, the Jews were marched in groups of 100 via the Melnikova Street to the Jewish cemetery located near the ravine called "Babi Yar". The entire surroundings of the ravine had been fenced in with barbed wire, and were cordoned off by three rows of troops: The outer circle was manned by Ukrainian police, the second with Ukrainian police and Germans, and the inner circle with Germans only.
At the killing site the Jews were ordered to undress, stack their belongings, and were then led in shot." groups of 10 to the edge of the ravine. There they were shot (by automatic guns and machine-guns) in front of their fellow sufferers, who were unable to escape.

The witness Iryna Khoroshunova, resident of Kiev, stated in her diary entry for 29 September 1941:
"We still don't know what they did to the Jews. There are terrifying rumours coming from the Lukianivka Cemetery. But they are impossible to believe. They say the Jews are being shot. Some people say the Jews are being shot with machine guns, all of them. Others say that 16 train wagons have been prepared and that they will be sent away. Where to? Nobody knows. Only one thing seems clear: all their documents, things, and food are confiscated. Then they are chased into Babi Yar and there. I don't know. I only know one thing: there is something terrible, horrible going on, something inconceivable, which cannot be understood, grasped or explained."
By 2 October all doubts had disappeared:
"Everybody is saying now that the Jews are being murdered. No, they have been murdered already. All of them, without exception - old people, women and children. Those who went home on Monday (29 September) have also been shot. People say it in a way that does not leave any doubt. No trains left Lukianivka at all. People saw cars with warm shawls and other things driving away from the cemetery. German "accuracy". They already sorted the loot!
A Russian girl accompanied her girlfriend to the cemetery, but crawled through the fence from the other side. She saw how naked people were taken toward Babi Yar and heard shots from a machine gun. There are more and more rumours and accounts. They are too monstrous to believe. But we are forced to believe them, for the shooting of the Jews is a fact. A fact which is starting to drive us insane. It is impossible to live with this knowledge. The women around us are crying. And we? We also cried on 29 September, when we thought they were taken to a concentration camp. But now? Can we really cry? I am writing, but my hair is standing on end."

More people than expected were brought to the site. According to a report from Einsatzgruppe C:
". originally we estimated the arrival of only 5,000-6,000 Jews, but actually about 30,000 Jews presented themselves, believing until the moment of liquidation that they would be resettled, because of the great work of the propaganda section."
As a result the Germans could not kill all of the Jews immediately. The historian Felix Levitas wrote:
"The executioners did not have enough time to finish their job. Therefore they began to put two people together, head by head, so that one bullet would kill two people. The wounded people were killed with shovels. The children were thrown into the Yar alive and buried with them."
Sergey Ivanovich Lutsenko, former guard of the Lukianivka cemetery, testified:
"They shot people from morning to night. At night the Germans went to sleep. The rest of the victims were locked in empty garages. This continued for five days. The Nazis brought more and more people, and from there only trucks with people's clothes returned."
More testimonies.

The mass murder of Kyiv Jews lasted until 3 October 1941. During the following months the ravine continued to be used as a killing site for Jews, Ukrainian civilians, Soviet POWs and Roma and Sinti. According to Soviet sources 100,000-200,000 people were shot at Babi Yar up until the time that the area was liberated by the Red Army on 6 November 1943. According to the "Operations Situation Report of Einsatzgruppe C" of 7 October 1941, the Germans claimed that 33,771 Jews had been shot in 1941.
Some Ukrainian inhabitants denounced their Jewish neighbours, others offered hiding places. After the war the Sipo and SD chief stated that his office in Kyiv received baskets-full of denunciations from Ukrainian citizens. His office had insufficient time to deal with all of this information.
Since 1990 the Jewish Board of the Ukraine has given the title "Righteous of Babi Yar" to 431 gentiles who hid Jews and thereby saved them from being killed by the Nazis. This title was bestowed on all family members alive at the time of the executions because all members of a family would have been shot by the Germans if their aid had been discovered.

When the German troops retreated from Kyiv in 1943, it was determined that all remaining inhabitants should be sent to Germany. Witness Kuznetsov stated:
". The troops began the roundup on the outskirts of the city, driving everyone out into the streets - those who could walk and those who couldn't - prodding them with rifle butts, with blows or by firing in the air. People were given only a few minutes to prepare. They were told that Kyiv was to be evacuated to Germany there would be no such city anymore.
It was dismayingly reminiscent of the procession of Jews in 1941. Masses of people were on the move, including wailing children, the aged and sick."
Nikita Khruschev on 8 November 1943:
"The Germans attempted to drive away the entire population of the city. They rounded up the inhabitants with dogs specially trained for hunting people. The Germans committed a mass murder of those people that hid to avoid being sent to Germany. They succeeded in driving out a significant majority of the population. Kyiv gives the impression of an extinct city."

In July 1943 Blobel came back to Kyiv. Because of the approaching Red Army he was ordered to remove all traces of mass murder in the East. In the Kyiv area his units were assisted by SS-Gruppenführer Max Thomas, commander of the SD and Sipo in the Ukraine.
Blobel established three special units from his Aktion 1005 troops: Sonderkommando 1005 A and 1005 B in the Ukraine, and Sonderkommando 1005 Mitte for the Minsk area.
Around 18 August the Sonderkommando 1005 A started to exhume and burn the corpses. This Sonderkommando consisted of 8-10 SD men and 30 German policemen, commanded by SS-Obersturmbannführer Baumann. Of course the Germans did not carry out this work themselves. 327 inmates of the KZ Syrets (among them 100 Jews) were forced to undertake this horrible task. The prisoners completed this work within six weeks. Those sick or too slow were shot on the spot. A German Schupo witness:
"Every prisoner was shackled on both legs with a 2-4 metre long chain. The piles of corpses were not set on fire at regular intervals, but whenever one or more piles were ready, they were covered with wood and soaked with oil and gasoline and then ignited."

Blobel, on 18 June 1947:
"During my visit in August I myself witnessed the burning of corpses in a mass grave near Kiew. This grave was approximately 55 metres long, 3 metres wide and 2.5 metres deep. After the cover had been removed, the corpses were covered with inflammable materials and set on fire. About two days passed before the fire had burned down to the bottom of the trench. Afterwards the grave was filled in and all traces thereby virtually obliterated. Because of the advance of the front it was not possible to destroy the mass graves located in the South and East which had resulted from execution by the task groups."

The corpses were cremated on funeral pyres, built on iron rails. Firewood was stacked, then the corpses were placed on this petrol soaked material. When the pyres had burned down, the special command of prisoners had to collect the remaining bones which were pulverized with tombstones from the Jewish cemetery. Finally the ashes were inspected in order to collect any remaining silver and gold (these men were called "Goldsucher" ("Gold diggers").
On 29 September 15 prisoners of the Sonderkommando were able to escape 312 of their comrades were finally killed by the SS either during or on completion of the work. In October 1944 the remaining troops of Aktion 1005 were ordered to Kärnten (Carinthia / Austria) to fight against Yugoslav partisans, under the name "Einsatzgruppe Iltis", commanded by Blobel.

For political reasons an official memorial was not built at the site until 1976. The first memorial did not mention that most victims were Jews. It took a further 15 years before a new memorial (Menorah) was built which today serves as a place for commemorative ceremonies.
The most impressive memorial, a symbolic one, is Yevgeny Yevtushenko's poem 'Babi Yar'. This work of art was published in 1961. Dmitri Shostakovich used the poem as part of his 13th Symphony, a powerful piece of music that caused a sensation when premiered in 1962.

Khiterer, Victoria. Babi Yar, the Tragedy of Kiev's Jews
Gutman, Israel, ed. Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Macmillan Publishing Company, New York, 1990
Ernst Klee. Willi Dreßen. "Gott mit uns" - Der deutsche Vernichtungskrieg im Osten 1939-1945, S. Fischer Verlag, Frankfurt am Main 1989
Sergey Romanov

Observations:
In this page we show photos which testify the mass murder at Babi Yar. Some of the photos were taken by Johannes Hoele, a military photographer with the German Propaganda-Kompanie 637 of the 6th Army. He took the photos most probably on 1 October 1941. Hoele died in 1944.
All his photos are from a single roll of 36 mm AGFA COLOR film. On the roll all frames are numbered. The first two frames have been destroyed. Therefore only 29 photos still exist.
At the beginning of the 1950's, his widow sold the roll to the widow of the Berlin journalist Hans Georg Schultz. In 1961 copies of the photos were acquired by the lawyer Wagner in Darmstadt in connection with the investigation of Sonderkommando 4a's crimes. The copies ended up in the Hessen Staatsarchiv in Germany. In the year 2000 Mrs. Schultz sold the original photos to the Hamburg Institute for Social Research.
Source: D. Malakov, "Kiev i Babij Jar na nemetskoj fotoplyonke oseni 1941 goda", in
"Babij Jar: chelovek, vlast', istorija", vol. 1, compiled by T. Yevstafjeva, Vitalij Nakhmanovich Kiev, Vneshtorgizdat Ukrainy, 2004.
Many thanks to Sergey Romanov for his kind support.The second part (white arrows) of photos contains mainly photos (black and white) which were taken by the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission (ChGK) in 1943, after the Nazis' retreat from the killing site.


Extracts from the Article by Shmuel Spector, Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Israel Gutman, editor in Chief, Yad Vashem, Sifriat Hapoalim, MacMillan Publishing Company,1990

BABI YAR, ravine, situated in the northwestern part of Kiev, where the Jews of the Ukrainian capital were systematically massacred. At the southern end of the ravine were two cemeteries, one of which was Jewish.

Kiev was captured by the Twenty-ninth Corps and the Sixth German Army on September 19, 1941. Of its Jewish population of 160,000, some 100,000 had managed to flee before the Germans took the city. Shortly after the German takeover, from September 24 to 28, a considerable number of buildings the city center, which were being used by German military administration and the army, were blown up many Germans (as well as local inhabitants) were killed in the explosions. After the war, it was learned that the sabotage operation had been the work of NKVD (Soviet security police) detachment that had been left behind in the city for that purpose.

On September 26, the Germans held a meeting at which it was decided that in retaliation for the attacks on the German-held installations, the Jews of Kiev would all be put to death. Participating in the meeting were the military governor, Maj. Gen. Friedrich Georg Eberhardt the Higher SS and Police Leader at Rear Headquarters Army Group South, SS Obergruppenfuhrer Friedrich JECKELN the officer commanding Einsatzgruppe C, SS-Brigadefuhrer Dr. Otto RASCH and the officer commanding Sonderkommando 4a, SS-Standartenfuhrer Paul BLOBEL.

The implementation of the decision to kill all the Jews of Kiev was entrusted to Sonderkommando 4a. This unit consisted of SD (Sicherheitsdienst Security Service) and Sicherheitspolizei (Security Police Sipo) men the third company of the Special Duties Waffen-SS battalion and a platoon of the No. 9 police battalion. The unit was reinforced by police battalions Nos. 45 and 305 and by units of the Ukrainian auxiliary police.

On September 28, notices were posted in the city ordering the Jews to appear the following morning, September 29, at 8:00 a.m. at the corner of Melnik and Dekhtyarev streets they were being assembled there, so the notice said, for their resettlement in new locations. (The text had been prepared by Propaganda Company No.637 and the notices had been printed by the Sixth Army printing press.)

The next morning, masses of Jews reported at the appointed spot. They were directed to proceed along Melnik Street toward the Jewish cemetery and into an area comprising the cemetery itself and a part of the Babi Yar ravine. The area was cordoned off by a barbed-wire fence and guarded by Sonderkommando police and Waffen-SS men, a well as by Ukrainian policemen. As the Jews approached the ravine, they were forced to hand over all the valuables in their possession, to take off all their clothes, and to advance toward the ravine edge, in groups of ten. When they reached the edge, they were gunned down by automatic fire. The shooting was done by several squads of SD and Sipo personnel, police, and Waffen-SS men of the Sonderkommando unit, the squads relieving one another every few hours. When the day ended, the bodies were covered with a thin layer of soil. According to official reports of the Einsatzgruppe, in two days of shooting (September 29 and 30), 33,771 Jews were murdered.

In the months that followed, many more thousands of Jews were seized, taken to Babi Yar, and shot. Among the general population there were some who helped Jews go into hiding, but there were also a significant number who informed on them to the Germans and gave them up. After the war, the officer in charge of the Sipo and SD bureau testified that his Kiev office received so many letters from the Ukrainian population informing on Jews - "by the bushel" - that the office could not deal with them all, for lack of manpower. Evidence of betrayal of Jews by the Kiev population was also given by Jewish survivors and by the Soviet writer Anatoly Kuznetsov.

Babi Yar served as a slaughterhouse for non-Jews as well, such as GYPSIES and Soviet prisoners of war. According to the estimate given by the Soviet research commission on Nazi crimes, 100,000 persons were murdered at Babi Yar.

In July 1943, by which time the Red Army was on the advance, Paul Blobel came back to Kiev. He was now on a new assignment, in coordination with SS-Gruppenfuhrer Dr. Max Thomas, the officer commanding the SD and Sipo in the Ukraine: that of erasing all evidence of the mass carnage that the Nazis had perpetrated. For this purpose, Blobel formed two special groups, identified by the code number 1005. Unit 1005-A was made up of eight to ten SD men and thirty German policemen, and was under the command of an SS-Obersturmbannfuhrer named Baumann. In mid-August the unit embarked on its task of exhuming the corpses in Babi Yar and cremating them. The ghastly job itself was carried out by inmates of a nearby concentration camp (Syretsk), from which the Germans brought in 327 men, of whom 100 were Jews. The prisoners were housed in a bunker carved out from the ravine wall it had an iron gate that was locked during the night and was watched by a guard w! ith a machine gun. They had chains bolted to their legs, and those who fell ill or lagged behind were shot on the spot. The mass graves were opened up by bulldozers, and it was the prisoners' job to drag the corpses to cremation pyres, which consisted of wooden logs doused in gasoline on a base of railroad ties. The bones that did not respond to incineration were crushed, for which purpose the Nazis brought in tombstones from the Jewish cemetery. The ashes were sifted to retrieve any gold or silver they might have contained. Cremation of the corpses began on August 18 and went on for six weeks, ending on September 19, 1943. The Nazis did their job thoroughly, and when they were through no trace was left of the mass graves.

On the morning of September 29, the prisoners learned that they were about to be put to death. They already had a plan for escape, and resolved to put it into effect the same night. Shortly after midnight, under cover of darkness and the fog that enveloped the ravine, twenty-five prisoners broke out. Fifteen succeeded in making their escape the others were shot during the attempt or on the following morning.

It took a long time after the war for a memorial to be erected at Babi Yar. The demand for a memorial was first voiced during the "thaw" that set in during the Khrushchev regime, by which time Babi Yar had become a place of pilgrimage. Among those wmade this demawere the writers IlyViktor Nekrasov, but their call was not heeded. In 1961, the poet Yevgeni Yevtushenko published a poem, "Babi Yar," which begins with the lines:

No gravestone stands on Babi Yar
Only coarse earth heaped roughly on the gash:
Such dread comes over me.

A year later, Dmitri Shostakovich set the poem to music, incorporating it into his Thirteenth Symphony. (Under pressure from the authorities, changes were made in the original text, and it is the amended text that is used today when the symphony is performed in the Soviet Union.) Both the poem and the musical setting had a tremendous impact in the Soviet Union, as well as beyond its borders. Demands increased for a memorial to be built at Babi Yar, but it was not until 1966 that architects and artists were invited to submit proposals, and it took eight more years for the memorial to be built. Since 1974 a monument stands in Babi Yar, but the inscription does not mention that Jews were among the victims there.

Babi Yar Revolt

Starting August 18th 1943, the Germans headed by Blobel erased traces by removing the corpses and burnt them in furnaces made of the tombstones of the nearby Jewish cemetery. For 6 weeks a group of chained prisoners, Jews and Soviet prisoners of war, doomed to death as well, was forced to perform the operation.

From Martin Gilbert's book "Holocaust":
. As the historian Reuben Ainsztein has written,
'in those half-naked men who reeked of putrefying flesh, whose bodies were eaten by scabies and covered with a layer of mud and soot, and of whose physical strength so little remained, there survived a spirit that defied everything that the Nazis' New Order had done or could do to them. In the men whom the SS men saw only as walking corpses, there matured a determination that at least one of them must survive to tell the world about what happened in Babi Yar'.

29 September 1943 - 2 years after the massacre, the 325 forced-laborers in Babi Yar revolt and break out. 311 were shot down as they run. Only 14 survived. Among them were:

Fyodor Zavertanny (escaped before)
Vladimir Davydov
Jacob Kaper
Filip Vilkis
Leonid Kharash,
I. Brodskiy
Leonid Kadomskiy
David Budnik
Fyodor Yarshov
Jakov Steiuk
Ostrovsky
Senya Berland
Volodya Kotlyar

Memorial to Babi Yar in U.S.A.

Alan G. Gass, FAIA, President of the Babi Yar Park Foundation:

We built a memorial park to the Babi Yar massacre in Denver, CO. It was dedicated in 1982, with an inscribed black granite entrance gateway, a "People Place" amphitheatre, a "Forest that Remembers" with a spring flowing all year in the middle, and a high-walled, narrow black bridge over a ravine, all at three points of a Mogen David carved out of the native pairie grasses. It is owned and maintained by the City & County of Denver. The park is used by the recently arrived immigrants from Russia and the former Soviet Union as a place of remembrance during the year and with a special ceremony on 29 September each year.


29th September 1941 The Babi Yar Massacre

The announcement read: “All Jews living in the city of Kiev and its vicinity must come to the corner of Melnikova and Dokhturovska Street by 8 o’clock on the morning of Monday, September 29th 1941. They are to bring with them documents, money, valuables, as well as warm clothes, underwear etc. Any Jews not carrying out this instruction and who are found elsewhere will be shot. Any civilian entering apartments left by the Jews and stealing property will be shot.” By nightfall of the following day, 33,771 Jews of Kiev had been massacred: machine gunned to death by Adolf Hitler’s elite Waffen SS troops their victims’ naked corpses transforming the picturesque ravine of Babi Yar into a bloody, unconsecrated grave.

The Babi Yar Massacre was to be the Nazis largest single mass killing. Yet Babi Yar’s gruesome atrocities soon came to be dwarfed in the proceeding war years by the Nazis’ introduction of heavy industry, in their effort to bring systematic method to their murderous activities. It is, however, only when we consider these atrocities in isolation that we can attempt to humanise the incomprehensible. From the gruesome evidence, and the testimony of the mere handful of survivors, this is what we know about the tragedy which happened seventy-two years ago today.

Some ten days earlier, Kiev had traded one oppressor for another when it was captured from Russia by Germany. Free from Stalin’s tyranny, some Ukrainians even dared to be optimistic – remembering similar circumstances during World War I when occupation by the Germans had been preferable to the Russians. But shortly after the takeover, several buildings occupied by the German military were blown up. After the war, it emerged that the NKVD – the Soviet Security Police – had been responsible for the bombings. But the Germans concluded it must have been the work of Jews – and, on September 26th, they held a meeting during which it was decided that, in retaliation, all of the Jews of Kiev should be exterminated. Two days later, notices were posted throughout the city, demanding that all Jews assemble and implying that they would be resettled in new locations.

On the morning of September 29th, thousands of Jews reported to the appointed location where they were then marched in groups of 100 towards the Jewish cemetery near the Babi Yar ravine – the entire area ominously cordoned off with barbed wire. The Jews were then divided into groups of ten and led through a three-rowed corridor of troops made up of Ukrainian police, Waffen-SS and Sonderkommando until they reached an area of overgrown grass. There they were ordered to surrender their possessions, remove their clothes and proceed to the ravine edge – at which point they were shot, their bodies collapsing into the ravine.

A German commander would report that, “Because of ‘our special talent of organisation’, the Jews still believed to the very last moment before being murdered that indeed all that was happening was that they were being resettled.” But by the time the Jews heard the machinegun fire and realised what was happening, there was no chance of escape. They had no choice but to pass through the assembly line and towards their deaths.

The Germans had anticipated that only 5,000 Jews would assemble, and so the slaughter ended up taking two days the executioners finally became so impatient that they put two people together head to head in order that one bullet would kill them both. The 33, 771 bodies were hastily covered with a thin layer of soil and then left until the summer of 1943, when 300 Jewish prisoners were forced to exhume and burn the corpses (which, by that time, numbered around 100,000 as Communists, Gypsies and prisoners of war had also been condemned to the same grisly fate) as the Nazis attempted to conceal their crimes.

A few miraculously managed to survive buried alive amongst thousands, they clawed their way out through the earth and found hiding places. But it was not until the poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko memorialized the Kiev Jews in 1961 and then, five years later, survivor Anatoly Kuznetzov’s extraordinary account of the massacre – Babi Yar: A Document in the Form of a Novel – was published in the Soviet Union (who, themselves anti-Semites, had suppressed evidence in the years since their re-occupation of Kiev) that the world would learn what had occurred at Babi Yar.


Why Did Adolf Hitler Hate the Jews?

However, according to a website Holocaust History had mention when Hitler hated the Jews, he blame. . middle of paper . . ermany, to have his power and to be the most evil dictator in the whole World War II history. About 6 million people died and most of them where the Jewish people. To conclude this essay, Adolf Hitler had many reasons why he hate the Jews, most of the reasons was about the government which is they are too intrusive on Germany’s politics and culture. Hitler and the Nazis believed that the Jews were a kind of biological struggle. In the Adolf Hitler’s he wrote that he’s hatred was influenced by Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.


September 29-30th Germany Kill 30,000 Jews at Babi Yar - History

Hannover Valuable asset
Posts: 10363 Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Bogus alleged 'conversation' about Babi Yar

Post by Hannover » 1 decade 8 years ago (Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:08 pm)

Here we have another alleged 'translation' of conversations allegedly overheard and recorded by the British, take note the original tapes are nowhere to be found.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/interrogat . RANSLATION.

This is howling of fraud, 'translation' said:

- The officer referred to is curiously not given "(?)". convenient.

- The number alleged "32,000" is odd since the numbers thrown around at that time were ca. 200,000. The 32,000 stated by Elfeldt, as far I can tell, was a later revision which Elfeldt could not have been aware of at the time of the alleged conversation.

- Aerial photos of Babi Yar at the alleged time of the alleged event do not show any such massive project underway as alleged. enormous numbers allegedly murdered, allegedly exhumed from an alleged huge pit, then an alleged enormous open air cremation of all corpses.

See my post on another of these alleged recorded conversations..'The bogus Bruns document':

Hannover Valuable asset
Posts: 10363 Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Post by Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:05 am)

TRANSLATION
Elfeldt: When we were in the Kiev district, my CO of signals (?) came back quite horrified . spoken . it was an engineer Bataillonskommandeur -- and this engineer Bataillon had the task of blowing up that . in which were those 32,000 Jews including women
and children.

Heim: Even if the figures are not correct, I mean, those are things which can absolutely be characterised as criminal, or even as completely crazy and mad.

Elfeldt: In just the same way as I have obligations towards my family and my nation, so have we of curse a nation, certain rules which we must observe towards the rest of humanity, there's no doubt at all about that. I can't behave like wild beast.

I regularly read the letters section of your website and they took me
to the pages where the conversations of German Officers were supposedly
secretly taped. Reading these conversations I noticed that many of these Officers were repeating 'Hear-say' situations, for example Lieutenant-Generals Elfeldt & Heim discussing the bulldozing of the ravine at Babi Yar. Neither officer had been present.

You finish the page by saying, 'In Sept 1941 the Germans or their collaborators are said to have killed over 33,000 people etc etc.' BUT I read on another revisionist website (VHO I believe) that no bodies
have ever been found at Babi Yar Ravine. What is true here?

Secondly who is to say that IF bodies were found at Babi Yar, just as they were found at Katyn & murdered previously by the Bolsheviks, that the Wehrmacht Sappers were not called in just to bury them. After all British Troops bulldozed bodies into pits in Bergen-Belsen did they not? This act in itself is no proof that the bulldozer drivers were the perpetrators.

The story about driving 100s of Russian Prisoners into caves in Khala,
gassing them and then blowing the caves up doesnt ring true either. The Russians because they 'noticed' something, 'broke away' and then returned, came back wringing their hands? If they had broken away, why
not just disappear into the woodwork, after all liberation was only days away?

Lastly, I have been a professional Film cameramann for many years and
one of the biggest challenges making movies is getting the sound right, thats why most sound is dubbed in afterwards. Hiding microphones in shrubs and trees sounds pretty neat but I dont buy it. If it worked Filmmakers would use it, but we don't. If two or more People are walking / talking we have mikes following them all the time, even with modern professional mikes a turn of the head can lose the audio. Two men walking and having a private, half-whispered conversation needs a
dedicated on-the-job-sound-man.

Special mikes that pick up sound over long distances are available BUT if the subjects are moving these mikes usually need to be hand aimed, AND you cannot have them just hanging in trees. Where were the cables? And for every mike you'd need a tape-deck running constantly. Rain or Wind landing on a sound sensitive microphone and you can forget picking up conversations. Are you sure these conversations were not pre-recorded by Sefton Delmer because neither the 'mikes-in-the-trees' bit sounds real, nor do the conversations?

The conversations are genuine, no doubt whatever. Some words are phonetically wrong, a very tiny number. Enormous pains were taken to
get the transcripts correct. I agree it is hearsay, and I make that plain.

David Irving (currently writing in Key West, Florida)

Thema: Re: Babi Yar still no bodies?
Datum: 25.07.03
An: [email protected]

Dear Mr Irving,
Thank you for answering my email and sorry for taking up your time
but :

a) You didnt answer my question as to whether bodies have subsequently been found in Babi Yar ? if Babi Yar turns out to be another
Treblinka (where no bodies were ever found) then the whole conversation below is an obvious fake. AND puts other conversations at that facility in
question.

TRANSLATION
Elfeldt: When we were in the Kiev district, my CO of signals (?) came back quite horrified . spoken . it was an engineer Bataillonskommandeur -- and this engineer Bataillon had the task of blowing up that . in which were those 32,000 Jews including women
and children.

Heim: Even if the figures are not correct, I mean, those are things which can absolutely be characterised as criminal, or even as completely crazy and mad.

Elfeldt:
In just the same way as I have obligations towards my family and my nation, so have we of curse a nation, certain rules which we must observe towards the rest of humanity, there's no doubt at all about that. I can't behave like wild beast.

b) The whole conversation is that of a Sundayschool play trying to impress on us the difference between good & evil., but not of two German Generals in 1944 discussing an event from 1941, especially as Germany was getting the tripe bombed out of it in 1944 and the 'certain rules we must observe towards the rest of humanity' (Elfeldt) were certainly NOT being observed by the Allied Airforces over Germany. WHY would Heim say 'even if the figures are not correct' and not something like. Mein Gott , what in hell happened there?

In 1944 the Germans knew about the massacres in Katyn, Bromberg, Lemberg, etc etc their own major losses around Moscow, Leningrad etc, the Partisan problems in the Ukraine and Baltic states. I have an older friend who was in the SS Div Handschar and he tells stories of how men from his unit, captured by Partisans had their hands tied behind their backs, butchers hooks put through their lower jaw and they were hung, alive & kicking in trees. How Russian / Jewish Partisans would grill live prisoners over fires like we grill pigs, who dug up the bodies of SS men killed in combat and cut the bodies to bits. and here we have two Generals who MUST know these things also, getting sentimental about an event that supposedly happened years before.
I DONT BUY IT!

Those conversations do not sound 'echt'. I have since given the German scripts to two German friends to read and they just laughed and said. Unmöglich, Untypisch!! no need to translate that for you. Once again I must stress how primitive sound equipment was in 1944-45. The British first captured German AEG tapedecks towards the middle of the war, before that they had huge unwieldy metal decks etc as big as bathtubs. the sound quality was not good. getting multiple microphones plugged in was an act of God. I think British intelligence is carrying on its long history of treating us like mushrooms (keeping us in the dark and feeding us manure)


Remembrance

After the war, specifically Jewish commemoration efforts encountered serious difficulty because of the Soviet Union's policies. [51] Yevgeny Yevtushenko's 1961 poem on Babi Yar begins "Nad Babim Yarom pamyatnikov nyet" ("There are no monuments over Babi Yar") it is also the first line of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 13.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, a number of memorials have been erected on the site and elsewhere. The events also formed a part of literature. Babi Yar is located in Kyiv at the juncture of today's Kurenivka, Lukianivka and districts, between Kyrylivska, Melnykov and Olena Teliha streets and St. Cyril's Monastery. After the Orange Revolution, President Viktor Yushchenko of Ukraine hosted a major commemoration of the 65th anniversary in 2006, attended by Presidents Moshe Katsav of Israel, Filip Vujanovic of Montenegro, Stjepan Mesić of Croatia and Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau. Rabbi Lau pointed out that if the world had reacted to the massacre of Babi Yar, perhaps the Holocaust might never have happened. Implying that Hitler was emboldened by this impunity, Lau speculated:

Maybe, say, this Babi Yar was also a test for Hitler. If on 29 September and 30 September 1941 Babi Yar may happen and the world did not react seriously, dramatically, abnormally, maybe this was a good test for him. So a few weeks later in January 1942, near Berlin in Wannsee, a convention can be held with a decision, a final solution to the Jewish problem. Maybe if the very action had been a serious one, a dramatic one, in September 1941 here in Ukraine, the Wannsee Conference would have come to a different end, maybe. [52]

In 2006, a message was also delivered on behalf of Kofi Annan, Secretary-General of the United Nations, [53] by his representative, Resident Coordinator Francis Martin O'Donnell, who added a Hebrew prayer O'seh Shalom, [54] from the Mourners' Kaddish.


FURTHER READING

Bergen, Doris L., War & Genocide: A Concise History of the Holocaust, Rowman & Littlefield, 2003.

As the title of this book makes clear, this short text provides an easy to read and understand introduction to the events that occurred during the period that came to be called the Holocaust.

Duffy, Peter, The Bielski Brothers: The True Story of Three Men Who Defied the Nazis, Saved 1,200 Jews, and Built a Village in the Forest, HarperCollins, 2003.

This book is a very readable and true story of three brothers who hid in the forest while the Nazis murdered their parents, siblings, and the rest of the villagers in their small Belorussian town. The brothers formed a guerilla fighting unit that successfully waged war against the Nazis.

Figes, Orlando, The Whisperers: Private Life in Stalin's Russia, Metropolitan Books, 2007.

This book presents personal stories of life in a repressive regime, with almost every family facing reprisals, the gulag, or forced resettlement during Stalin's years as dictator.

Megargee, Geoffrey P., War of Annihilation: Combat and Genocide on the Eastern Front, 1941, Rowman & Littlefield, 2006.

Megargee provides a concise history of the German army's initial campaign as it invaded the Soviet Union in 1941. Much of the focus of this book is on the brutality of the Germany military officers, who historically blamed the genocide that occurred on the Eastern Front on the Nazis and not the army.

Wiesenthal, Simon, The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness, rev. ed., Schocken Books, 1998.

In the first section of this book, Wiesenthal relates a story of how, as a prisoner of war in a concentration camp, he was brought in to see a dying SS officer who asked the prisoner to forgive him for what had happened to the Jewish people. In the second part of the book, Wiesenthal asks a number of well-known intellectuals whether he should have offered forgiveness to the soldier.

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